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  • GTC/4 for sale

    Topic originally created by sam231 on September 11, 2007 3:12 AM and viewed 3634 times in the old forum.

  • #2
    Originally posted by sam231 on September 11, 2007 3:12 AM
    For those interested or just looking Fantasy Junction just listed # 16261, european, dark blue and tan interior for sale @ $149K. Looks like well kept car, real milage u/k. www.fantasyjunction.com

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    • #3
      Originally posted by JeffLit on September 11, 2007 4:07 AM
      Interesting to me in a couple respects, aside from the asking price. First, it is listed as 16261 but the tag on the inner fender reads 16251. Either way it is one of the last C4s built (16289 was last). Next is the polished rocker molding. From the factory that is painted matte black but someone took the effort to strip and polish that cast aluminum piece on this car. Looks kinda nice with the polished Borannis. You can tell that the carpets have been redone because they don't have the correct ribbed rubber wear pads (some cheesy looking vinyl substitutes ). The fact that those might have been so worn as to require replacement is an indication of use/abuse to me. Yet overall the car looks very nice and it certainly has a lot of the things that make these cars sell at higher prices, such as the books and tools (although the manual pouch looks wrong to me and I see no indication that the spare tire well toolcase holder is included). I could do without the modern stereo, CD changer, and dynamat on the underside of the trunk panel. As an FYI, that lower radiator belly pan is not one of my units because the center hole is not cut out and the overall appearance is a little rough. Interesting to me that it comes with coco floor mats because the original pictures of my car sport the same period-popular type of mats. Sorry to pick apart what looks to be a nice example of our favorite model. At any rate, I've added it to the Gallery and to the Registry as 16251, not 16261.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by sam231 on September 11, 2007 7:15 AM
        Jeff, no umbrage taken. You pointed out the many inconsitencies in a non-informed restoration of what appears to be a good car. I was just amazed at the price. If it sells, should we cheer, or rue the day when one could buy a C/4 at a reasonable price? Sam

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mammc on September 28, 2007 5:18 PM
          I'll weigh in on some observations on this car strickly from the photos. The values of C/4's have lagged behind 365 GTB/4's by a factor greater than resonably explained by the race pedigree and more romantic past of a Daytona. The C/4 is a better car in ways that aren't merely subjective and the fact that many examples haven't been cared for/restored to the level of the 365 GTB's is one reason the C/4 hasn't closed the pricing gap like it should. It is a front engine 12 cylinder Ferrari that performs well and is extremely comfortable. The car is also more refined in ways a performance orienented person can readily feel. The coachwork and overall fit and finsh are head and shoulders above a Scaglietti built car. This particular forum is one of the best of any marque in the country. I am not tryng to preach to the choir; we all know these things and can help the C/4 become recognized for the car it realy is by spending the time and money to put better examples in the market place. The lower air damn is beaten, showing less than careful driving The side window-swipe rubber is short on the side glass: nearly an inch The outside door handles appear to be of the incorrect finish The rear valance is the wrong finish, too glossy The interior door panels should not be screwed in The passenger seat belt is incorrect, drivers appears correct The slightly irregular hole on the cover plate on the passenger door jamb represents a missing catch There are two holes in the interior header plate on the passenger side The motor compartment inner fenders are have both been compromised. The passenger has a wrinkle in addition to dents, that should cause one to look further, the drivers side has what appears to be some seams The passenger fender well has had the cut off switch bolted in an undesireable place, if one is that close pull the cable and save the holes. The battery cables are incorrect Other cables in the motor compartment have been mis-routed as have the ignition wires The jack is for a later model Ferrari, incorrect for a C/4 The windshield has discoloration to the extent that the rear glass prabably has the same which might explain why in 57 photos none show the rear glass or parcel shelf The replacement hood struts are installed backwords The air ducts are incorrect If this were a 365 GTB/4 it would be concidered low end

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Bryan on September 30, 2007 4:02 AM
            Originally posted by mammc
            The lower air damn is beaten, showing less than careful driving The side window-swipe rubber is short on the side glass: nearly an inch The outside door handles appear to be of the incorrect finish The rear valance is the wrong finish, too glossy The interior door panels should not be screwed in The passenger seat belt is incorrect, drivers appears correct The slightly irregular hole on the cover plate on the passenger door jamb represents a missing catch There are two holes in the interior header plate on the passenger side The motor compartment inner fenders are have both been compromised. The passenger has a wrinkle in addition to dents, that should cause one to look further, the drivers side has what appears to be some seams The passenger fender well has had the cut off switch bolted in an undesireable place, if one is that close pull the cable and save the holes. The battery cables are incorrect Other cables in the motor compartment have been mis-routed as have the ignition wires The jack is for a later model Ferrari, incorrect for a C/4 The windshield has discoloration to the extent that the rear glass prabably has the same which might explain why in 57 photos none show the rear glass or parcel shelf The replacement hood struts are installed backwords The air ducts are incorrect
            In the interests of learning all around: Unless there is a subtlety in the jack that I miss, this is the correct jack for a C4. It DOES seem that someone has replaced the fittings on the long threaded bolt. There appears to be one extra bracket on the valve cover for the spark plug wires, but other than that, what discrepancy do you find? Door panels were screwed in on my car. What is incorrect about the battery cables?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Aaron on September 30, 2007 4:35 PM
              Interesting – and talk like above makes we wonder sometimes if I should sell my vehicle to someone with the energy to take her to full value. A few things about my Italian hot rod. – stated at the risk of getting kick out of the web site 1. The hood struts work better if they are upside down – sorry, that is simple logic/fluid mechanics. – If I turn them around correctly, I risk bending the hood when it bangs against the strut stops because all the oil is at the other end of the strut. (I just figured the Italians blew it) 2. My passenger window swipe is a bit short too, maybe not an inch, but not being retired, I just don’t have the time (between driving the car, which I really enjoy) to track down all the new rubber parts - speaking of which, I hope I never have to replace wing window surround – I’m having enough trouble finding the steering link - hate to think about a rear window with the electric defrost. 3. Speaking of the steering link, I have not been able to locate one with new/tight ball joints. I was planning to pull the unit and have it machined if necessary to take a replacement ball joint – is this wise? Or should I just live with that little bit of play that I find annoying – really annoying since I know it could work perfectly. 4. My MSD units work very well and have a rev-limit. Again, sorry – I like em! 5. I have not been able to find original Bendix fuel pumps – running Facet – 6. No – I refuse to hook up my smog pump! 7. I got caught in the rain Friday night, not an issue, she doesn’t leak and the wipers work fine - took her home, dried her off and didn’t think anything of it. 8. The tool kit was gone when I purchased her from Fantasy Junction - The correct item, case with correct locks was just more money than I was willing to spend on it. Yes, I’m having a good time, and no, I do not take any of this very seriously. Not to worry, I never throw-away anything and actually do maintain as much originality as my limited time and somewhat limited budget allow. I have the original Jack! By the way, anyone have an opinion on the Cooker XWX tire – Aaron

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mammc on October 3, 2007 12:06 AM
                the correct C/4 jack has the long head, not the short head. Yea, the struts can be stiff and difficult on the C/4's. I drilled a small hole on the underside to release the fluid on one of the struts and now the tension is perfect, they raise on their own and can be pulled down with one finger from either side and they look correct. I purchased a new set of struts during my restoration only to find they were as stiff, so I also corrected the problem - with a drill bit after I spent $550. I replaced my rear window and it was a tedious job that required patience over several days. I have found the XWX tires from Coker to be fine, there are not many choices in the correct size, a goodyear and the Pirelli which perform well and have a somewhat period correct look.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JeffLit on October 4, 2007 2:34 AM
                  I run the Coker XWXes with no issues. They work well. As for the nit-picking…. Everyone gets enjoyment from these cars in different ways. Overall, the "original" state of these cars is less well understood than more expensive cars such as Daytonas so there are times when an owner will have a car where something is incorrect and they don't even realize it. Some owners might not care and it will rarely affect the usefulness of the car but others get enjoyment from showing or knowing that everything is as Enzo intended. For example, I’ve watched the Romers learn more and more about the model and continue to derive enjoyment out of making their beautiful (Platinum-winning) car better. And I’ve spent time on and off the forum discussing other areas of “originality” with owners. The Ferrari Club of America’s ICA/PFA Guidelines have a clear and laudable goal: “The key purpose of the Concours is to promote the preservation of the Ferrari in its original state. Therefore, the primary focus of the judges will be on originality, authenticity and condition...” Why originality as the cornerstone? Simply because so few Ferraris have been built relative to other car marques. Each Ferrari is, indeed, unique, and concentrating on a Ferrari’s special attributes made sense to everyone in the Ferrari family. Personally, I'm conflicted on the issue. My car is an unmolested low-mileage car and when I had to do some maintenance to it I got caught up in the idea of winning the Coppa Bella Machina. That led to the slipperly slope of originality, cleanliness and beauty . I've shown my car once at the FCA level (I did one other local LA show for fun) and while the car won Platinum I wasn't very happy with the experience . It’s too easy to lose perspective. Further contributing to my originality angst, a while back I ran across a C4 that was very intriguing to me. The owner has no hang-ups about originality and he has done some really interesting things to the car, such as make some custom chrome “strakes” that follow off the hood vents, a custom grill, pleated rear package area like a Daytona where the rear seats used to be, custom thicker door panels, Daytona front seats, body color bumpers front and rear, etc. Then he turned to performance and put on big Brembos and a 412i engine block and heads to achieve 410 bhp. What he has is unique and probably a heck of a lot of fun to drive. You can read about the performance mods at Carobu’s site . Far from being kicked off the site Aaron, I think we all admire your willingness to use and repair your car. I know I do. You've tackled some big drives and big mechanical tasks and we all benefit from your experience. I’m not going to flip my hood struts but it’s useful to know that they might work better upside down. There must be some innate tendency in human nature that makes us want nice things, to the point that the things lose their usefulness. Witness all the collections, museums, trailer queens, etc. People talk about the idea of one not owning the car but the car owning you. It isn't limited to cars either. I see it in horses, houses, art, etc. I've had my 365 GTC/4 now for over 15 years. I was awfully fortunate to be able to afford a Ferrari when I was in my twenties. When I first bought my car I thought I had a racecar -- I mean, it's a Ferrari, right? I immediately joined the Ferrari Owners Club and took it to the first available track event. I mounted a fire bottle, rigged up a 5-point harness, and mixed it up at Willow Springs and Laguna Seca with my buddy's new NSX. We took wild weekend rides every week, driving like idiots on twisty mountain roads. I learned that my driver's side mirror gives up to the aerodynamic load at around 120 MPH. I jumped in head first. I helped form the Southwest Region of the FCA, was the first Editor of the Sempre Ferrari newsletter, I've been honored by Phil Hill, I've been to the factory, I was in the Ferrari F1 Paddock Club at Monza in 2002 when Ferrari won 1/2, etc. And I met some of my best friends via the Ferrari Clubs. All because of that car. Over time my use of the car has changed. My on-track experiences in the C4 led me to a series of more track-suitable vehicles until I ended up with purpose-built racecars and shifter karts. As a result, I have a more realistic view of the role the C4 plays in my herd. And I’ve changed too. I have two kids now and I’d like to think I’m a little more mature and a bit more responsible on the road. I’ve purchased a couple other Ferrari (that’s the proper plural by the way) and I’ve given in to the 365 GTC/4’s beauty and well-preserved condition to the point where I don’t drive it as much. While there’s certainly some downside to that, I’m OK with it. I hope this hasn’t sounded like justification for why I know about SERFLEX hose clamps and only put 1,000 miles per year on my car. I’m just saying that these are great cars and can serve their owners in a variety of ways.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by marcello on October 5, 2007 3:22 AM
                    I am completly into the originality of my car, super anal. But I also ran into the Carabu C/4 at the Cavallino this past year. I did not want to post anything in fear of being thrown off the site. In person the car is SUPERBAD. I have a bunch of pictures that I can send in if I ever figure out how to. PS They would not let the Carabu C/4 on the lawn. Sometimes I have fantasies about that car and a young Sharon Stone. Marcello

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aaron on October 5, 2007 3:27 AM
                      Jeff, Perspective appreciated – and as you succinctly point out several times – It is all about what makes us smile Best o luck to you, look forward to meeting you in person at some point. Aaron

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ian Levy on October 8, 2007 4:27 AM
                        Interesting to read the various t perspectives on the GTC4 & the views of different owners. Owning a so called classic car is a personal & individual activity & it is surely up to the owner to decide how to enjoy his investment. I am not a slave to originality but I prefer to keep my car as original as is possible & I also try to look at the GTC4 through 1970's eyes so I have no good feelings about the Carabou modifications. I would not want a GTC4 to become a sort of donor car & a C4 with Daytona seats, a custom grill, air intake strakes, Brembo callipers & a bigger engine is not a C4 anymore. It may be a great car to drive but the alterations in the spec are hindsight & I have my own thoughts on what may be a great car to drive. In a production run of 500 the loss of one to this fate is not what I approve of but if an owner decides this is want he wants then, hey this is a free country? For myself it was important to preserve as much originality as was reasonably practical for my restoration & it was not too difficult to do that. In that I agree with the FCA that originality,authenticity & condition is the key Regards Ian L

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SCantera on October 18, 2007 4:05 AM
                          Just joined the C/4 registry today. I am the buyer of the C/4, #16251 at Fantasy Junction. I had Patrick Ottis in CA do the PPI for me. He was very frank and provided me with a clear understanding of this particular car. Because of Patrick I was able to negotiate the price based on the PPI. Overall the car is a fine example. Although it may not be a show winner, I know that going in. My intent is to drive, maintain and just enjoy what I consider to be one of the best driving vintage cars of the marque. I have been into Ferraris for 30 years now. I am putting together a modest garage w/ a few vintage Fcars. I have a 330 GTC, a 246 GTS and now this C/4. I also own a 575 as my one only modern version. Glad to be on board with this knowledgeable group. I am sure I will be asking you many questions and asking for your help. ciao from Napoli FL

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JBishop on October 18, 2007 9:57 AM
                            Welcome I fully agree with your comment "My intent is to drive, maintain and just enjoy what I consider to be one of the best driving vintage cars of the marque." They are great cars. I was never a big fan of them but after driving them I realise that as a true GT car they are beautiful. Real easy to drive, very docile but can move when required, with that awesome howl when you hit the redline. There are some real experts on this site who will be able to help you if required. Cheers John

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JeffLit on October 18, 2007 2:26 PM
                              As one of the guys who picked your new purchase apart, let me sheepishly say welcome. You seem to have the right attitude and I hope the car brings you lots of enjoyment.

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