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Topic originally created by Fred on January 24, 2010 11:48 PM and viewed 5263 times in the old forum.
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Originally posted by Fred on January 24, 2010 11:48 PM
I have the Monroe air shocks on my car and one is no longer working causing the car to sag. I see that T Rutlands has the coilover replacement shocks for $1,234. Not sure if this is per side or for 2.
It seems rather steep for a Koni shock and spring. This is more money than I pay for my JRZ remote reservoir racing shocks. What am I missing on this?
Does anyone have the replacement shock part number and the spring length, spring rate and diameter? I have so many racing springs i was wondering if i could make up my own set of rear shocks?
I have not removed the Monroe yet so I do not know what it entails to make up a replacement shock and spring set-up. Am I crazy to try this or should I just pay for the replacement Koni set-up?
Fred
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Originally posted by JeffLit on January 25, 2010 3:35 AM
The only thing you are missing is that it is a Ferrari part so they can get that much for it.
There's nothing terribly complicated about the setup but keep in mind that the two rear shocks (per side) are in single shear so should be valved similarly or they twist the rear control arm. I have the Rutlands setup on my car, and yes I paid the $1,200, even though I have 5 way Penskes on my Lola, etc. A Koni engineer supposedly visited Ted's shop and used his C4 as the test mule to engineer this setup. All they do is weld a threaded sleeve to what is probably an off the shelf Koni shock. The sleeve allows ride height adustment, just like any racing coilover. Ships with a Hypercoil spring. Nothing fancy. Of course, you need a shock with the proper bushings/ends.
There are a bunch on numbers on the shocks. Seems to be 4003 82 1825SP2 105059.
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Originally posted by Fred on January 25, 2010 6:47 AM
Was the $1,200 for 2 shocks or 1? I e-mailed T-Rutlands asking about this and they did not get back to me.
If I could just buy the shocks I can make everything else. The coil springs are cheap.
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Originally posted by JBishop on January 25, 2010 7:37 AM
Fred
As I understand it is $1200 for 2 units. If you make your own make sure you match the existing rear shocks to new ones. As Jeff said the A arms will twist under load if the rear units are not matched in stiffness and rebound. These A arms are forged and VERY strong BUT you don't want to unnecessarilly put a twisting load on them.
Good luck
John
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Originally posted by jackdwitt on January 25, 2010 3:23 PM
Fred- Yet another posting about levelers. I too considered replacing my levelers with Koni parts. I went to PSI at Sears Point and asked them to help me with this project. I know the Jag XKE has 4 shocks and 4 springs on the rear axle. Why not a C4? Bruce, the chief, told me he thought I was wasting my time (and money.) Adding two more shocks is going to over-damped the suspension. Two more springs are going to make everything too stiff, unless you buy 4 springs to make everything the same. Then you would have to re-valve your original shocks. Yeah, I know Jeff is a race car driver, he knows a proper rear set-up, but this deal from Rutlands is not a simple bolt-on job. Also, what is being used as a reference when someone says "Handles real good!"? However, any alternative is also a can of worms. If you can find a set of used levelers and the internal bladders are good, Bruce will rebuild them (he currently has mine.) I believe I heard $200 per. Did you see the asking price for the NOS units for sale? Even though they are unused, they must be more than 20 years old- Bruce will tell you they will need rebuilding (seals, oil, & recharge.) I and others have been looking for a long time for used units for sale- no luck. When I last talked to Bruce in Sept 09 he stated he was working on a deal to acquire "some" used levelers. You could give him a call. Shanessey (SP) probably has some- good luck with that. There is no option available for a torn/ruptured internal bladder. Sorry to be discouraging, but this is a thorny issue. Perhaps going with the Rutlands option will be the way to go, but it is going to cost more than buying the units from Ted. Good luck with your car. Regards, JackW
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Originally posted by Gkuntz on April 27, 2010 4:50 AM
<p></p>Originally posted by jackdwitt
Did you receive you levelers back from PSI and if you did are they working properly. I now need to address those on my car.
Gary Kuntz
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Originally posted by Gkuntz on April 27, 2010 4:54 AM
Jack: Did you receive your levelers back from PSI and if you did did they perform well? I now need to address those on my car.Originally posted by jackdwitt
Gary Kuntz
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Originally posted by Fred on January 25, 2010 10:54 PM
It is sounding like I should just go with the T-Rutlands set-up. With regard to Jacks comment about matching the dampers and springs so that you do not over damper the rear of the car or make it too stiff because of the springs. I have to assume that the Load Levelers had some dampening to them and some spring rate. Can I assume T-Rutlands has taken this into consideration when they designed the replacement set-up. I e-mailed T-Rutlands and they have not gotten back to me.
I have some time on this as the car is not being used during the winter months (Long Island, NY). I would like to get this resolved by the spring time so that it is ready to go. My winter project is getting my BMW World Challenge car ready for the race season. The BMW is sitting on my lift so that needs to be completed before I start on the C4.
Fred
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Originally posted by JBishop on January 26, 2010 8:53 AM
Fred
I would assume that Rutlands did all the research to make their set-up compatable. The Koni representative here in Melbourne also developed a replacement set-up. They used cars as mules as well as shock dynos to match the damping and spring rates. They spent months on it. I would be very confident that their system works well, so I would assume a place like Rutlands could also do it. For interest the place here is Top Performance. You could contact them for prices but I think they are the same as Rutlands BUT then you have international freight of some HEAVY things. $$$$$$
Good luck.
John
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Originally posted by Ian Levy on January 26, 2010 5:04 PM
G'day John
If there is anything I have learnt with these older Ferrari is DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING.
I have the experiences to prove that as I am sure have many of us. Just look at Wil's present distributor issues.
Like you I would assume that Rutlands have done the research but I would still check it out anyway.
Regards from wet & grey Manchester
Ian L
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Originally posted by JBishop on January 26, 2010 6:12 PM
Ian
Hi from warn sunny Melbourne. Are you watching the tennis? Anyway the A arm suspension geometry should require symetry in dampening and rebound, although our A arms are forged steel and are very strong. Thus they can resist the twisting if there is a mismatch. Of course the suspension bushings and brackets will also load up if there is a mismatch between the forward and rear arms of the A arms. As an aside have a look at a 550 suspension. The geometry is the same but the A arms are made of pressed and welded steel. No where near as elegant or as strong. Note that on Boxers they use symetrical coil-over shocks on both sides of the rear A arms. That makes a lot more sense to me. I guess you could ask Rutlands how they arrived at the design or try to get a unit and put it on a shock dyno along with a rear shock to see how they compare. Can Fred get a Runtlands sample and use his existing rear shock to compare? Does Fred have access to a shock dyno? However Jeff seems to think the Rurtlands units work well and he is the reining USA national Go-Kart Champion. So he should know !! Again well done Jeff. I do know the local Koni agent here put a lot of work into developing their solution as I know the guys who supplied the cars to test the units on and they really know their business which is purely suspension components. I just would assume that Rutlands did the same. I had better stop there and get a cold beer. It's a bit warm here at the moment !!
Cheers
John.
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Originally posted by Fred on January 26, 2010 10:45 PM
I heard back from T Rutlands. The shocks are out of stock until the end of February. When they come in I will purchase a set. I have access to a shock dyno. Joe Stimola who services my JRZ shocks can dyno the shock. I will most probably bring him the new shock and the other shock from the same side (not the load leveler replacement Monroe). An interesting thought is that I do not know how old the other shocks are so if they are worn out they will not match the new ones.
I wonder how far off the Monroe air shocks are to the load leveler shocks?
Thanks for all of the help.
Fred
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Originally posted by Mike Meehan on January 27, 2010 3:47 AM
Hi Fred, I put a set on my car a couple of years ago,got them from Rutlands. Easy job ,much improved ride and no issues whatsoever. Regards ,Mike
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Originally posted by Trachsel on January 27, 2010 10:03 PM
Fred,
As soon as you get your load levelers tested on the dyno, would you please publish the results here in the forum please? So all non US habitants may search for load levelers in their own country and need not absolutely buy from Rutlands.
Thanks, Jacques.
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