Clutch Replacement Questions

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Topic originally created by Bill Mihalic on October 25, 2014 4:35 AM and viewed 2145 times in the old forum.

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Originally posted by Bill Mihalic on October 25, 2014 4:35 AM
My clutch slippage has been getting worse. Previously it would only happen in fifth gear under heavy throttle, but now it's happening in some lower gears. I have adjusted the clutch linkage to make sure there's plenty of free play. Q1: Since I've set the linkage with ample free play, is there anything else I should look for, or is it fairly certain at this point that the clutch is worn? (The car has 30,000 miles on it, but I don't know if the clutch was replaced previously.) Q2: Some previous postings indicated that it's easier to do a clutch replacement when the engine's out. If there's no other need to pull the engine, is there any problem (other than increased difficulty) with doing it with the engine in? Q3: Is clutch replacement on a C/4 somehow unique, such that I really should have it done by a classic Ferrari mechanic, or should any good shop with experience working on classic sports cars be able to handle it? Q4: How many shop hours are reasonable for the clutch replacement? As always, thank you for advice. Regards, Bill

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Originally posted by Ian Levy on October 26, 2014 7:41 PM
Hi Bill Sorry to hear of your clutch slippage but you pose an interesting question. I think if you have the correct free play in the system & gear changes are still possible I would say the clutch plate is worn & probably has been there for quite a while. As far as replacing the clutch as with all things GTC4 nothing is straightforward! It is definitely easier to replace the clutch with the engine & gearbox out of the car but as it is removed & replaced in one unit it is some job & there are just a few disconnections to be made! I would not replace the clutch this way unless there are other bits on the engine that you might want to attend to. The removal of the air cleaners & carbs alone is a tedious task so making all the disconnections take time. Removal of the clutch unit itself means undoing everything required to move the differential backwards towards the rear of the car to produce some space at the bell housing. That is disconnect clutch operating mechanism,half shafts,loosen diff to chassis bolts, remove gearbox stabilising arm,loosen prop shaft connection bolts & tube etc. etc. Inside the car you will have to remove the gear lever together with what that involves & so on. I am not sure what I might have missed off the list but the details are in the Wallace manual, I think-I can post a copy of the relevant pages if you do not have access to it. As far as choosing a shop to do the work goes, I would definitely choose a Ferrari man who has worked on these cars before & preferably replaced a clutch on a GTC4. Experienced classic car mechanics who have not worked on our cars regularly come up with short cuts that do not work & require the work to be redone.The pages of our forum are littered with tales of woe of work done by experienced mechanics who have failed miserably when working on our cars- I include myself in this category. I really do not have any idea of the required hours but however long you think it will take, I would add at least 50% to that figure. Best regards & best of luck Ian L

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Originally posted by Bill Mihalic on October 27, 2014 8:20 AM
Thanks, Ian--Good info, good advice. Regards, Bill

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Originally posted by jackdwitt on November 5, 2014 11:38 AM
Bill- David J found himself in your situation a while back. Dave told me he took his car to Patrick Otis who admitted he had not replaced a clutch without pulling the engine but would give it a go and the bill would be a lot less if possible. Dave was very pleased that Patrick was able to replace the clutch without pulling the engine. Don't know how much time Dave spends on the site these days, and taking your car to a shop in California is probably out of the question, but you might consider dropping Dave a PM and asking details. He told me numbers at the time but I don't remember them. Good luck with your car. Regards, Jack W.

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Originally posted by Tom Welsh on November 15, 2014 12:29 AM
Bill, To get the transmission out, it depends how handy you are, I read the books and blogs, put the car on stands, pulled the drive-line back, dropped the trans using a floor jack, rolled it on it's side and pulled it out. Did the reverse to re-install it. It probably weighs about 80-90 lbs. based on the fact I was able to lift it. I also have a Kevlar clutch for longevity and to avoid problems on track days. The clutch works like any other with no chatter. It's a good winter project. Regards, Tom W

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Originally posted by DaveJ on November 15, 2014 1:43 AM
Hi Bill, Please review my responses to you in the email you sent to me...You may share them with our Forum..Hope that this helps. DaveJ

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Originally posted by Ian Levy on November 15, 2014 2:01 AM
Hi Tom You must be real handy. I have had the clutch out both ways. It is definitely a tight squeeze & the fact that you did it easily is testimony to your ingenuity & nimble fingers. I also used a small trolley jack to take the weight & jiggle it into position. Good job well done Regards Ian L

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Originally posted by Bill Mihalic on November 15, 2014 2:21 AM
I just received additional feedback from DaveJ offline, which he said I could share. The 2008 job on his clutch included related tasks of refinishing of the flywheel, new release bearings, clutch cables, etc. The job was about $1,200 for parts and 15 hours of shop labor. He also said the work was done without pulling the engine, but it did involve removal of the center console fascia (ski slope, I assume) and the shifter. Yikes--except for changing oil filters, nothing on a C/4 is easy! Dave--Thanks for the helpful info. It sounds like I can get my clutch replaced without a second mortgage. (Ian--I believe your attaboy to "Bill" was intended for Tom Welsh, who had done a clutch replacement himself.) Thanks all. Regards, Bill

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Originally posted by Ian Levy on November 15, 2014 3:46 AM
Bill Thanks for the correction I have transferred the "attaboy" to Tom Regards & thanks again Ian L

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Originally posted by Bill Mihalic on May 10, 2016 1:28 AM
After a year and a half, I get to bring closure to this thread--Hooray! I tolerated the slipping clutch for a year while weighing my options, and in October, 2015 I shipped the car to Motion Products (in their transporter) in Neenah, Wisconsin for a clutch replacement. Their quote for a basic clutch replacement was lower than a Detroit-area Ferrari dealer's, even including the transportation. Plus, I felt that with their experience with older Ferrari's they'd be good at taking care of some other minor repair and maintenance items. It turned out that the clutch slippage was not due to wear but due to oil from a leaky rear main seal on the engine. The flywheel surface had micro-cracks. The plan was to replace it, but MPI found C/4 flywheels running around $6,000 so we decided to try just resurfacing the flywheel, which was successful. I was pleased that the added cost of a new rear main seal and associated labor was minimal. The car stayed with MPI over the winter months while they addressed miscellaneous minor issues and I just got it back last week--another Hooray! In the next day or two I'll write a separate post with more details about the work by MPI, but I was very satisfied with the experience.

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Originally posted by sam231 on May 16, 2016 10:51 PM
Good news Bill! Will I get a chance to meet you in Columbus at the FCA National? Tom Y. and I are again driving out in my C/4 and should be there by 6/18. Cheers, Sam

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Originally posted by Bill Mihalic on May 17, 2016 1:06 AM
Sam--Yes, I plan on attending unless our first grandchild arrives around that time. It would be great to meet you and Tom. I"ll PM my cell #. Bill