Center Mufflers

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Topic originally created by JeffLit on September 4, 2016 4:02 AM and viewed 432 times in the old forum.

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Originally posted by JeffLit on September 4, 2016 4:02 AM
An update on replacement center mufflers from Classiche Exhaust. I had previously been unable to source these units from the usual suspects. GT Car Parts suggested getting the available USA Daytona units and modifying them. Unfortunately, I was unable to determine what exact modifications would be required so when Gandinell turned me onto Classiche Exhaust, who is supposedly in possession of the original ANSA tooling for the FR1245 silencers, that seemed like a better choice. The Italian company has a US distributor in Texas who was easy to deal with. I was a bit uncomfortable wiring funds to an entity I was unfamiliar with but they proved to be on the up and up. Despite the traditional European August shutdown, my units arrived as promised yesterday. Total time was about 6 weeks. At first blush they appear to be correct. The packaging wasn't great but they arrivd undamaged. I had been told by a well known Ferrari restoration expert that the original tooling had been left outside to rust and that any claims of having original tooling were exaggerations. I would say he was correct. While close to the originals, they most certainly aren't stamped from the same dies. They are about 17mm shorter, somewhat more narrow, and constructed slightly differently. The originals have fixed flanges while the new ones use a floating design. But the biggest issue is the hangers. The new units use a narrower design that will not disperse the load on the rubber as well and the construction of the straps themselves is different but most annoyingly, the straps are not properly positioned. The center and front straps are OK but the rear is much too far forward, especially since the overall length is shorter. With the shorter length, the entire muffler must move forward (the tailpipes can move forward but the headers can't move back), which exacerbates the rear hanger problem. I managed to get one onto the car but the rear rubber straps are stretched to the point of almost failing. I am now contemplating finding longer rubber donuts or cutting and welding the straps into the proper location. I have not started the car so I cannot yet comment on the sound. Images: https://goo.gl/photos/MCeZDU5qkQB3WjrR7

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Originally posted by JeffLit on October 8, 2016 4:49 AM
Update: First, I was wrong about the length being different. They are the same (117.5 cm). The construction is slightly different -- the originals have fixed flanges with a beveled recess to hold the gasket donuts while the new ones have flared tube ends to hold the donuts and then floating flanges. I was measuring flange to flange but the flanges on the new units don't go as far out since the flare is on the pipe, not in the flange. If you measure gasket surface to gasket surface they are the same length. Second, it has been confirmed by the manufacturer that the rear most strap is not properly located. Here is the reply from them:

Hello Jeff, We have further investigated about the issue you have had with the Ferrari 365GTC/4 centre silencers to figure out what happened as the system has been installed in our workshop whitout encountering any problems. 1) We can not understand the reason our silencers are long 116cm instead of 117,5cm...also from our assembly gig turns out the lenght must be 117,5cm (with the rotable flange positioned at the end of the flared pipe) 2) The flanges towards the header were built rotable since a lot of cars have got warped headers due to the heat and flanges are not in the original position anymore, with rotable flanges system the mounting is facilitaded. No problem to weld them again but remains the doubt we could find several cars with an incorrect phasing of the 3 fixing holes. 3) The boxes molds were rebuilt in 2008 on Ferrari order giving us a sample and boxes are the same for Daytona USA and for 365GTB/4 USA also. 4) We tolally agree with you Jeff that the rear hangers has been welded in wrong position. We verified it was changed of 3 cm. being trusted a car they declared to be perfect. Right now we have descovered that in reality they had modified the bottom and put the hangers in the wrong position. We recovered the first equipment control gig that, although rusty, perfectly fits. Then we put the supports back in its original position ( as you can see in the picture we sent Eric of Classiche exhausts) so as to avoid any problem. Thanks Jeff for you perfect description of problems. The fastest solution that we have thought was to send a new couple of hangers to be welded in the correct position. We are so sorry for the issue you had. However we want to underline all our mufflers are built with original Ansa marmitte tools being the right product both as fitting that as Ferrari certification. We are aware that working on cars built 60 years ago (hand built sometimes) we might find some slight differences.but our goal is to reduce it to a minimum.

As you can read, they have been very responsive. I have no problem cutting off the rear hanger, welding in into the proper position, and repainting but I haven't done so yet because, as luck would have it, I recently sourced a complete, original exhaust system. Now I am swimming in C4 exhausts. The original stuff has not yet arrived but when it does I will evaluate what I am going to do. Either way, I will have some parts I don't need so if you have a need please pm or email me.

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Originally posted by dbone on October 12, 2016 1:26 PM
I was in need of the rear sections. I originally had one side repaired by Gary Bobileff where a few rust holes at the bend of the pipes after the box were fixed. The cost compared to a complete new end section was such that i decided to buy new. Both of my sides have 2cm rust holes at the rear part of the box. I bought both sides. Silmilar to Jeff, the fit was a little off. The attachment point at the far rear on my units had them on top of the boxes. The new units had them on the sides. The other attachment point was close to the same location and usable. The flange was a floating flange which is workable and did have proper indentations to hold the sealing ring. The floating flange can be welded . I had to cut 1 inch on one side and 1/2in on the other side. Both pipes side were the same overall lenth. So perhapes my mid sections were off or the headers length created the variance. I was able to get both side to fit - they are now more matched up with the end bumper that my other units. ( i cut them to match up) Aside from not the exact size which i could deal with after modificatin, the end tips are NOT chromed- the end tips are stainless! the rest of the units are milled steel. I am working to get them polished - me and elbow grease. Other than the stainless tips vs chrome I'm ok with the pipes. Chrome vs stainless tip are very different and the chrome looks best. I have given Eric, the tx rep, a full detail and measurment comparison with pictures- they seem to be very interested in the refiting detail. And it appears they are working on getting the right fit - they do not have the originals. The other concern was sound. They sound the same- no change to me - they sound great My 2 cents . To add - i got the rear side attachments to work vs the on the top of the box attachments points. I have US spec's. From the parts book the Euro version is different.